New dwarf planets detected

Science Early Science
#1

Hi
I’m a non professional with an obsession about transneptunian dwarf planets… :face_with_spiral_eyes: :smile:

With a size of minimum 700 km diameter

If we expect the Rubin to detect 8 times more TNOs than we know until now (40,000 vs 5,000) then maybe we would detect 8 times more TNO>700km… so if there are now 15 known, then we should discover 120 more.

And because we will discover them normally already the first year, as the coadding images is not useful for mobile solar system objects, then it means we should discover 10 per month.

From the weekly updated informations from Keith Bechtol the SV Survey has already started in mode “standard survey” since 1 month (covering the most interesting sector for TNOs which is the ecliptic plane - most TNOs are located under 15 deg from the ecliptic). So we should have detected already 10 TNO>700. But maybe we haven’t identified their size yet…

So maybe it’s too early to ask ! ) (and I need to be more patient !)

Does anyone have any information on new dwarf planets detected during commissioning SV Survey ?

Or should I come back in one more month to ask ?

If it takes let’s say one month to identify the size of new TNOs detected, then we should wait next month… but I want to already ask (as I am too excited and impatient) : How can I know if new dwarf planets >700 have been identified during Commissioning SV Survey ? Maybe I should come back in one month to ask that too… isn’t it ? :thinking: :zipper_mouth_face: :roll_eyes:

I hope it’s not necessary to wait until the DP2 release… in May 2026 !! I’m sure the information of new big dwarf planets identified (at least the biggest ones of >1200km) will spread out even in Google before !… Or at least in this forum !

Maybe one of you who could be able to get informations on this topic could accept to become my fellow and inform me each month about the new TNOs>700 identified ? :heart_eyes: :hugs:

PS: I asked also the MPC Helpdesk and here is their answer :

"One possibility would be to subscribe to the MPC’s MPEC mailing list: Minor Planet Electronic Circulars
The instructions for subscribing are there. That will send far more notifications than you are interested in, so you will want to set up a filter on your email to only include ones with ‘TNO’ or ‘TNOS’ in the email title. There would still be smaller TNOs included as well, but it would likely be a manageable amount. An example of a TNO MPEC is here: MPEC 2024-W31 : THREE NEW TNOS

You could also visit this page regularly: IAU Minor Planet Center
If you select ‘Distant objects (subclassifications pending)’, then sort them with the smallest H at the top, you’ll see the current largest-H TNOs. (Note- I think the ones with 0.0 are incorrect, I will follow up on those.)

If you are specifically interested in LSST, there will be some alerts originating directly from LSST: Alerts and brokers | Rubin Observatory
As with the MPECs, the standard filters are likely to be more broad than just dwarf planet TNOs, but you should be able to filter out a lot of those automatically. There will definitely be solar system specific notifications, but I do not know how many/how they will be divided."

I am going to try to do so. I have work on the table…
What do you think ?
Any comment is welcome !
:+1:

#2

I’m just an amateur, but this seems optimistic, since there is presumably a bias among the existing detections towards the bright ones and thus the big ones.

#3

Thanks for your comment ! Even if it doesn’t answer my question, I’m interested to know more about what you say here… How do you know there could be a bias ? Can you tell me more ? Even if it’s not of biggest interest for me, as it wouldn’t change much about my question if the Rubin would detect 120 TNOs >700 or just 60 (the half)… It would still make 5 per month in average… and I would like to know how to be informed of new identified TNOs >700.

I’ve suscribed to the MPEC (Minor Planet Electronic Circulars), but the size doesn’t appear of course… as they are too freshly detected to be able to know ?

So then there is that list :
https://data.minorplanetcenter.net/db_search

You must select ‘ Distant objects (subclassifications pending)’ and you get an updated list of TNOs that you can sort by H Absolute Magnitude, so more or less by their size ! From the 15 TNOs>700 only one doesn’t appear on top list because of its low albédo , it is Salacia. It appears much lower in the list. But à loss of 1 over 15 is ok for me. And the truth is that I am more interested in TNOs>1000.
And if a new TNO>1000 would be identified by the Rubin (or even the Euclid survey!) then it would newly appear in the top of that list and I would know about it… …but the question is : how much time will it take between the first detection, the first estimates of its albédo/magnitude and size and the appearance of this object in this list ? Is it fast ? Or should I expect to be waiting 6 months ?

Anyway, I’m feeling like embarrassing here with my questions…

I should just wait and see… I’m sure that this topic will be treated soon as time goes by !

So see you in one month !

But any comment or advice is of course welcome !

Thank you ! :ringer_planet: :telescope: :star_struck:

PS: in fact, im too anxious. Because what I am really interested in is HUGE Dwarf Planets… >1700km(*) (there are only two for the moment : Pluto and Eris.) So I’m sure that if the Rubin detects/identify one, we would know about it very quickly as the info would spread like wildfire through the community and therefore through the medias ! Isn’t it ? :man_shrugging:

(*) : TNOs >700 are still interesting as I think that they will show us the possible semi major axis of huge TNOs by common resonances. Like are Orcus and Ixion for Pluto 39-40AU RES 2:3 and Gonggong and 2021DR15 for Éris 67-68AU RES 3:10. I expect to have another huge one at 81-82AU RES 2:9 or 111-112AU RES 1:7, where you already can find big TNOs>500 ! (Thats where you can find, for the moment, the only two TNOs>650 with a semi major axis bigger than Éris (>70AU)).
So the distribution of the semi major axis of TNOs >700 will give us tips on the possible semi major axis of huge TNOs !! :point_up:

This topic is of major importance as in the future we could discover others criteria to determine what is a TRUE planet of the solar system… and those objects to be discovered maybe by the Rubin could be REAL planets ! :medal_military: :bookmark: :sweat_smile:

And for the moment, the big TNOs >400km show two possible semi major axis : 81-82AU or 111-112AU. So it will be very interesting to see the semi major axis distribution of others new big TNOs >600km… But even more interesting would be to discover directly THE HUGE ONES !… :ringer_planet: :telescope:

#4

I think i already found out by myself :

The MPC lists are updated with the new identifications of TNOs. There are already many 2025 objects.

I just need to wait patiently

The Rubin detects, then there is an alert for brokers :
https://rubinobservatory.org/for-scientists/data-products/alerts-and-brokers

Especially the ‘down-stream brokers’ SNAPS Website: Trilling et al. (2023)

SNAPS – the Solar System Notification Alert Processing System – is a downstream broker that ingests Solar System observations from ZTF, LSST, and several other surveys. For each Solar System object we derive a number of properties (color, lightcurve, etc.), and serve both the collected observations and these derived properties. We search for both individual and population outliers, and will issue alerts about those unusual objects. The community can interact with our database through our web portal, where users can designate their “favorite” objects, and (coming soon) an API.

Of course it will take weeks, maybe months, before we get to know its brilliance, distance and size. But once they know, of course it will appear in the SNAPS lists and MPC lists.

And of course, …we will quickly hear about new huge dwarf planet as soon as some of us has realised its discovery !

So I have even nothing special to do…
Just sit and wait
(In Republica Dominicana they say : just sit and wait that your feet gets wet [meaning at the seashore : the sea retires but will come alone again])
( Arabs also say : Sit at the door of your house and you will see the corpse of your enemy pass by… )

:chair:

#5

Just adding this :

I know from the map of the footprint of the early science commissioning LSSTCam SV Survey and the planned coverage progression that this first month (July) we’d have done the sector of Scorpio/Sagittarius.

I just wondered if someone knew (@bechtol ?), or knew someone who would know, if during this time we have already identified new big TNOs>500km…

Seems too early for me but we never know…

Like Jimmy Cliff sings it : ‘…but you must try, try, try…’
:grin: :jamaica: :notes: :trumpet: :drum: :palm_tree: :coconut:

Anybody ?